A Future of HIVE

tarazkp in LeoFinance • 7 months ago

@acidyo brought a Binance announcement to my attention about a new Future pair released today.

HIVE/USDT

https://www.binance.com/en/futures/HIVEUSDT

And so you know upfront, this is not a "how to" guide, it is a "how am I meant to" question. I asked for some basics like this one provided by @azircon, but was wondering what kind of good and bad experiences people have had trading future in the past. Honest experiences, not Googled experiences, or just the upside wins while ignoring the downside losses.

I don't expect anyone to be an expert futures trader, but considering there is 38 million in volume in the twelve hours since it has opened, I reckon it is worth calling some heads together and pooling a bit of knowledge that might help others, but much more importantly, help me.

Half-jokes aside....

Is there a very simple guide on what I am meant to do on Binance? Like, super simple, with crayon pictures, bubbly text, flashing lights and perhaps some glitter - because I struggle with this kind of conceptual thing, and I don't want to be taken to the cleaners in the first ten minutes of my attempt, however small the attempt might be.

I am not confident.

But there are gains to be made, and fun to be had I suppose, so it is worth looking into. Though, I have already heard a couple horror stories of massive losses in hours, but they aren't mine to share here. Are the same level of gains possible though? Are the potential rewards worth the risk?

Based on the volume, the risk reward ratio seems to be attractive enough at the moment for people to dip more than their toes into the game and test the temperature. Perhaps this is why HIVE is seeing some additional "out of character" price action recently. Will it bring some much needed attention to HIVE?

I hope so.

Personally, I want that attention to be on more than the price of the token though, because ultimately, that is what it is going to take for a project to last longterm. Price will never be enough to sustain alts, making them all extended pump and dump scenarios. Don't people want more than that?

Maybe not.

As long as it buys a better fiat life, right.

Has anyone played with the HIVEUSDT Futures yet? Any luck?

Taraz
[ Gen1: Hive ]

Posted Using InLeo Alpha

#hive #futures #binance #trading #mindset #learning

7 months ago in LeoFinance by tarazkp

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acidyo 7 months ago

Haven't really traded in a very long time but I reckon things still work similar as it used to back then. I'm not the best trader either, when it comes to spot I usually sell when I feel like it pumps too fast and most of the time buy back in too early just cause "hey I got more hive than I had a couple hours ago" rather than waiting to 1.5x it I'm okay with 20% more hive on smaller trades.

So a simple explanation, because honestly I wouldn't even be able to give you a more technical one cause there's probably many things I don't understand fully with futures, binance does however have a lot of trading data and other tools to delve into before or like I used to do, mid-trade, to convince myself to keep it running over the night.

Basically you move funds into a designated futures wallet, you can either pick one where u trade coins against usdt or keep them as the coins they are, for instance bitcoin and still trade against usdt (or against other coins like btc-eth pairs). Once the usdt are in that wallet they are separated from your other funds, meaning you can't lose more than what you've transferred over, however you can transfer more over to attempt to save yourself from those dreaded liquidation email alerts either letting you know you're close to getting rekt or you already are.

Okay so let's say you see hive at $1 for simplicity's sake and you have $1000 in the wallet and think it will go up from this moment forward or eventually without going too low. Without getting crazy, you want to try a 10x margin where you borrow 10x the amount you have to open a trade for hive to go up/long. Naturally for every trade there has to be a counter trade, someone shorting or at some point having shorted hive by opening a position betting on it going lower in the near future. Looking at the funding rate of coins on the futures page, there is a timed cost to leaving positions open/paying interest on the loans you've taken. I'm not entirely sure how much of the loans are provided by the exchange and how much comes from those taking the opposite trade of yours but there's usually a default funding rate traders have to pay every 4-8h (for hive it seems to be 4h according to the announcement linked in the post), the default fee is 0.01% which means that those longing will pay those shorting. Again, not 100% sure if part of that goes to the exchange or if the fee that occurrs when you open the trade is the only one binance gets, but you can basically also earn some fees by having a position open if you are in the minority side of the trade. Now these fees aren't big but you gotta remember that you're paying for what the position is worth, not just from your initial $1000, same goes for when you open the trade.

If binance's trading fees are still 0.075% as I remember and you open a 10x long with your 1k this means you're already off the gate down $7.5 and another $7.5 when you decide to close it so you're going to want the price to change by at least 0.15% in your favor to even break even on a trade, not counting funding fee. There may however be lower fees based on how you execute the trade, if you "market buy" meaning you buy into an existing sell order or short you're going to pay a premium on the fee than if you had placed a buy order at say $0.999 and waited for price to get there so someone would short into your long/sell into your buy order.

Okay now in terms of profits/wreckening you have a lot of flexibility on futures. For instance you can change the x loan amount at any time but it'll be applied based on your initial wallet holdings. For instance say you went long hive on $1 at 10x with 1000$, this now means that your trade is active as if you have 10,000$ in the position. If hive goes from $1 to $2, congrats, you made a profit of 10,000$. The downside is that if Hive drops you have a lot less room for error because once your unrealised profit gets close to -$1000 your whole position will be force closed so you can pay back the $9000 you borrowed for your 10x $1000 loan. In this example this means if hive drops from 1 to 0.90$ it's game over, you'll most likely be left with 100$ or so depending on how volatile/wild the swing was when the forced liquidation trade occurred. Binance usually sends you a warning email when you're closing in on the liquidation price (I believe it's 80%, I.e. 0.92$ in this example)

If this alert were to wake you up and you're not like me who sleeps 8h not even waking up to an airplane having crashed into your neighborhood then you have the option to "panic" and send more usd over to the futures wallet, if you were to send another 1000$ in this case your liquidation hive price target would go from 90c to 80c giving you some extra room for error but of course at double to cost (if it does reach 80c you'll lose ~1800$ instead of just ~900)

The flexibility then comes in where if you suddenly got some insider trading telling you someone's going to implement X on the hive blockchain and it's only up from here or you just feel like it's not going to go lower than 90c you can use part of the 1000$ you added extra to buy/long more hive. You can also change the margin multiplier from 10x to apparently 75x (crazy stuff) but keep in mind that the current unrealised minus profit will eat into the additional 1000$ you added so you can't buy/borrow another 10k to turn your 10k hive long into 20k. If the price here is still 90c and your 1k saved you from liquidation you most likely have no "extra" funds to long hive more with which would adjust your entry price based on how much more you buy. Okay that was a long and confusing sentence, let's assume you have a lot more usd and you transfer some more over to keep things simple. If at 90c you decide to buy another $10k worth of hive with 1000$ at 10x, your initial $1 entry price would drop to 0.95$, this means that if you were right and hive didn't drop further but started going up instead you'll start being in profit once it passes 95c rather than $1.

Anyway for beginners I'd encourage to start very, very small. Always leave room for at least 3-4 "double downs" in terms of adding more balance to your futures wallet if things don't go your way and to never let the liquidity price be too high as it may cause a lot of stress. I didn't even go into stop losses or orders here, they can some times be nice while other times ruin great opportunities (you buy at $1 and place a stoploss at 98c so you'd only lose 200$ in the above example and not ~900 in case hive decides to drop under 90c while you're afk/sleeping, but you wake up and notice that not only did you lose 200$ and your position, but hive only dropped to exactly 98c taking you out and is now at 5$ which could've meant 50k profit from your initial 1k balance).

Other readers feel free to correct me on stuff I wasn't 100% true about, this just from an amateur who thought he could make a lot more hive some years ago but decided he could spend his time on building stuff instead and only ever longed which wasn't a great idea considering the 4 year cycles.

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8 votes

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erikah 7 months ago

Again, not 100% sure if part of that goes to the exchange or if the fee that occurrs when you open the trade is the only one binance gets

Funding fees go to those who are participating in the "Earn" project, locking their assets for a certain period of time to be precise. It works similarly to how a bank system works. The exchange is keeping a part obviously but the majority goes to paying yield to those locking their assets for 3 months, 6 months or for a longer period.

Regarding placing orders, you can place a Limit order or a Market order, or both. With Market orders you have to factor in the slippage, which, if price is running hot, can be high. I prefer limit orders, even split orders to DCA my entry and avoid slippage, but for that, you need to know your levels, or price takes off without you.

Choosing trade type can also be tricky as you have 2 options: Isolated and Cross. You need to be sure which one you're comfortable with as Isolated refers only to your position size, while with cross you're guaranteeing with your entire wallet. Bybit has Unified Trading Wallet now, which means you don't have to split your capital between spot and futures, and transfer funds back and forth, which is a huge advantage for me. Binance doesn't have it yet, but this is the future, so I believe it's just a matter of time. Anyway, I prefer Isolated, as when my SL is hit, I know I was wrong and no need to risk more than I want to. I can reassess, look for another trigger and enter again if the market gives me what I need.

Stop loss is a must for me. No SL, no trade, but again, you need to know your levels because otherwise you become a feeder to SL hunters. When scalping on the 1 min time frame, there's no room for errors.

SOLUSDT.P_2024-10-28_16-33-45.png

This was a scalp short on SOL on the 1 min time frame, with 3.9 R/R. I try to keep my charts simple, but still, you need to know there to mitigate risk, especially if you're trading on a red folder news day, when volatility and manipulation is high and things can turn against you quickly.

This doesn't mean you can't use leverage. It has its advantages, but ultimately, position size is what counts.

All in all, I've been waiting for $HIVE to be listed as perp futures for a long time and I'm glad it happened.

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5 votes

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tarazkp 7 months ago

Thanks for this!

I was in bed already when you added it here :)

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3 votes

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acidyo 7 months ago

I was in bed as I wrote that out on my phone waiting for sleep. :D

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bozz 7 months ago

Everyone I talk to says to stay away from futures unless you have a lot of money to burn or you really know what you are doing. I guess the chances you end up with nothing are a lot greater than actually making some gains. I might get lucky once, but I doubt it would last very long!

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4 votes

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sapphirecrypto 7 months ago

Futures trading requires unique strategies... if you show up and trade the same way as you trade spot, you can say goodbye to your money already...

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1 vote

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tarazkp 7 months ago

I might get lucky once, but I doubt it would last very long!

This is exactly what I am wondering. Will it be an expensive lesson in stick to what I (kinda) know?

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1 vote

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bozz 7 months ago

I hope it works out for you if you try it.

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1 vote

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castleberry 7 months ago

I just now found out because of you and this post... so I am eagerly awaiting to get the answers to your questions with my crayons out!! hahaha

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2 votes

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tarazkp 7 months ago

I know one of the answers is

1.21 gigawatts

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ducecrypto 7 months ago

making them all extended pump and dump scenarios. Don't people want more than that?

Of course. I invest in projects, not profits!

But I hate futures. Will not touch it. I want the real thing, not paper!

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1 vote

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tarazkp 7 months ago

Have you ever tried trading futures?

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1 vote

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ducecrypto 7 months ago

Nope. I don't like derivatives at all! Call me old fashioned, but I just want to long companies & assets that I like.

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shortsegments 7 months ago

I will also be interested in reading what people have to say, as I was an options trader before crypto, and now am just curious about crypto options.

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2 votes

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tarazkp 7 months ago

There are a few decent comments to read :)

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1 vote

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tht 7 months ago

I have had margin trading experience a few times before. The risk increases considerably in margin trading depending on the leverage size. Since liquidation occurs quickly, I realized that this is not for me. I only do my transactions from the spot market. There is less profit, but you do not lose all your money.

With margin trading, there will be a significant increase in Hive's daily trading volume. In this respect, it is also good news.

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2 votes

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tarazkp 7 months ago

I have only ever used the spot markets, and haven't even attempted anything else.

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jaraumoses 7 months ago

I don't want to be taken to the cleaners in the first ten minutes of my attempt, however small the attempt might be.

I remember back when I had just joined the space, in my first Futures attempt, I got cleaned $20 in about a minute!

I'm also waiting for that simple guide, let me camp in the comments for it

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1 vote

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tarazkp 7 months ago

How did it feel to lose so quickly?

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jaraumoses 7 months ago

So so bad ,it was a bad experience and I tried I guess twice or thrice after!

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videoaddiction 7 months ago

I don't think that HIVE is a pump and dump coin, or it shouldn't be. It really is based on an "essential" project.

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1 vote

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erikah 7 months ago

When trading, it's not about projects or essentials, but about making money. You don't care what you trade, as long as you can make money.

I don't think that HIVE is a pump and dump coin

Every coin is a pump and dump coin if there's someone out there with a considerable amount to move the market. $HIVE is not any different. If you look at the chart, you can see huge buy orders executed during a specific trading session, always the same (we know who they are), which caused big moves to the upside (as back then we didn't have perp futures to short it, but we have now), which then on a higher time frame resulted in a big upside wicks, because there was no more buying pressure. Those tokens are going to be sold at the right time, mark my words. I've posted about this, but you can also check as the charts don't lie.

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tarazkp 7 months ago

Does having a future market change anything for the big buyers/sellers?

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1 vote

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erikah 7 months ago

Yes, quite a lot in my opinion. $HIVE is now a tradable asset, which means more volatility and opportunity to accumulate more on exchanges for both small and big players.

This way Hive, as a progect, gets more visibility and opportunity to attract more users, investors, big players included. Obviously this is a probability and depends a lot on how things will develop onchain, but it is definitely a step forward and much needed as well.

If you look at the price action $HIVE printed the last couple of days, when most of the alts were bleeding, $HIVE bounced off the $0.288 level (I missed the level in my TA post by $0.005), recovered quite fast and holding nicely so far.

It is definitely a good thing and should have happened a long time ago.

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videoaddiction 7 months ago

Sure, they can pump and dump HIVE, but it is not the same with other alts. If so, why we are blogging here, why we stake HIVE then? We could only trade it.

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erikah 7 months ago

It is the same, just in a different way. Other projects also have staking options and so on.

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passenger777 7 months ago

I frankly don't understand why people persistently continue these transactions, seeing that they are making losses in futures trading. When we look at the coins in futures trading, we see that there are coins that can rise suddenly and fall unexpectedly. Hive, the stable course of its price perhaps prevents it from being included in futures. It's no coincidence that when Bitcoin falls, Hive rises.
When a blogger writes an article on the Hive platform, it puts the Hive coin in an advantageous position in terms of permanently storing this content and earning rewards as a content creator. Based on this, we can say that Hive can be used to generate time-based income.

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akumagai 7 months ago

Simple question, how do i access the days for volume traded in binance. Just want to analyze for my own sanity.

Thanks in advance guys.

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urrirru 7 months ago

Futures with 10-20 leverage are very dangerous. In 99 cases out of 100, this is a loss of money at a distance.

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rzc24-nftbbg 7 months ago

I still have to explore how futures work. For now, spot market is more predictable.

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spearhead1976 7 months ago

Here are some things to consider before you start trading futures:

Do your research: Make sure you understand how futures contracts work before you start trading them. There are many resources available online and in libraries that can help you learn more about futures trading.
Start small: If you are new to futures trading, it is best to start with a small amount of money. This will help you limit your losses if the market moves against you.
Use stop-loss orders: A stop-loss order is an order that instructs your broker to sell your futures contract if the price reaches a certain level. This can help you limit your losses if the market moves against you.
Overall, futures trading is a risky proposition. It's important to be aware of the risks before you start trading and to take steps to manage your risk.

Here's some additional information about HIVEUSDT Futures:

HIVEUSDT Futures is a contract that allows you to speculate on the price of HIVE tokens using USDT (Tether).
Binance launched HIVEUSDT Perpetual Contract With up to 75x Leverage on December 23, 2024.
The maximum leverage for HIVEUSDT Futures is 75x. This means that you can control a position worth up to 75 times the amount of money you deposit.

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danzocal 7 months ago

!PIZZA

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pizzabot 7 months ago

PIZZA!

$PIZZA slices delivered:
@danzocal_(1/10) tipped @tarazkp

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